In his introduction to Writing About Music, Wingell says, "Many people cannot imagine that there can be any thoughtful discussion of a musical experience beyond rudimentary approval or disapproval" because they believe music to be simply a matter of taste that cannot be qualitatively judged outside subjective experience.
How do we move beyond this "I like it or I don't" discourse and begin to, as Wingells says, "argue logically and convincingly about issues of musical style or quality"?
Wingell has a point when he says we should argue logically and convincingly about issues of musical style or quality, but the discussion of "I like it or I don't" is important too. Music can be simple and it can be complex. Yes, it may be good to discuss the complexity of the composition, but not all the time. Connections can be made through simply saying, "I like this song." From a composer's standpoint discussing the musical makeup of a song is necessary, but from the average person's standpoint it isn't. There is a time and a place for both, but I do not think that you can or should have one without the other. As far as judging music outside of a subjective standpoint, songs do not come with a measuring stick for quality. I may love one song for its simplicity, while another may say there is no musicality. Music is subjective, and I do not think there is a way to get around that.
ReplyDeleteI think that whether or not you like a piece of music, you can analyze a song in many ways. Many songs aren't just for the audience to listen to so I feel like if you look at a song in search of why this song was written or what it truly means, you can look past the "I like it or don't" discourse. Just because you don't like a song doesn't mean you can't appreciate the reason it was written or what the context of the song is about. Music is not all about the sound you hear and the feelings you get from it, but is also about message the song is trying to deliver. No matter what you think about the song, you can look into this.
ReplyDeleteIn order for us to write thoughtfully about music, instead of a simple "I like it or I don't" we need to base everything from the actual music. There needs to be evidence in order to prove a larger though process. We can also discuss the quality of the music by examining things such as beats and rifts and the intercity that each song has. By doing this we can get a whole view of a song instead of just saying I like it. There needs to be a thought process, evidence, or deep examination into a song to a piece about music worth writing. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of opinions with no basis in the music itself because even if someone doesn't like the music they can appreciate it for the artistry it encompasses.
ReplyDeleteWe all have different tastes, it's natural, it's human; whether it's in food, partnership, or music. I can't help that I hate heavy metal, it just makes my ears bleed. But to others, that same exact sound is interpreted as the best thing on planet Earth. In order to write about music, you have to be unbiased. The review will be tainted otherwise, and left as simply a bad review. What needs to be discussed instead is the quality of the music, whether or not your personal taste allows it. The performance of music is an art, an art upon which not everybody understands. Even if you don't understand it, however, it should be appreciated nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteMoving beyond this is the tricky part, because how do we just remove our own bias? It's hard, and takes practice. It comes with the researching of musical technique and the unrelenting trial and error of pretending you like it so you don't flat out hate it. A good writer can do this, and although it'll take time to learn; similarly to the music, writing about it is an art.
Talking about music doesn't necessarily have to be an approval or disapproval. One song has so many elements within it that there's more to talk about than just whether or not it's a "good song." Writers can discuss the music style without saying whether they like it or not. I believe that we all need to be more open-minded when it comes to the music we listen to; no one wants to read something written by someone who only has a specific taste in music. If everyone listened to each song subjectively without any preconcieved notions on the genre, it would be easier to write about and discuss it without saying if it is good or bad.
ReplyDeleteA song is written by someone just like a book is, it's ridiculous to think they can't be talked about in the same way. There is so much more to be said about music than just whether or not you like it. Music is all about feeling and at some point in all english classes you have to discuss tone and the way you thought the author was trying to make you feel. You can do the exact same thing with music, in fact you should do that, because I think the thing that connects us the most with music is our feelings and how the music affects them. A song is also composed of words meaning you can discuss those words, what they're trying to say, and how they're arranged just like in any other piece of text people talk or write about.
ReplyDeleteI think that using the "I like it or I don't" method we can begin to argue. From the initial opinion of like or dislike, we must ask "Why?" in terms of why you do or don't like it, and then give specific evidence to back up your opinion. Is it the lyrics, the theme, the voice and instruments, how it makes you feel, or how you are interpreting the song? Someone might say they dislike a certain song just because it brings back awkward memories from their freshman Homecoming dance, but that doesn't mean the quality of the song is not of a high standard. Also, I think that we could use the three points of the triangle, of the author, the text, and the audience to analyze how effectively or ineffectively the author produces some sort of meaningful response from the audience because isn't that what all music tries to do?
ReplyDeleteThis works the same way as debating a political issue. There can be pros and cons to each argument, and it goes beyond just agreeing or disagreeing. Even though we may not always be aware of it, reasons exist as to why we like or dislike a piece of music. It may be a challenge to discover and articulate theses reasons but it can be helpful because it can open up people's perspectives and views. Writing about music facilitates this process by allowing us to put into writing why we like or dislike certain songs or artists or albums. Music isn't a matter of taste in the sense of randomization. There has to be a reason for disliking or liking certain music, no matter how obscure. For example, if we grow up on certain genres, we will most likely enjoy those genres as adults. Or perhaps if someone had a not so great childhood, they will dislike the music connected to their childhood.
ReplyDeleteIn order to move past this very simple judgement just based upon taste, we must show an appreciation of music while showing a deeper understanding of the music (and text) itself. Showing how the two work together to emit a certain reaction on the listener is important and while answering the "I like it or I don't" it also delves deeper, making a statement about the style and quality of the music. Also, to "argue logically", we must have an idea of the background, culture, and other external factors, though we must realize that they do not determine anything and only give some validity to any argument that is proposed.
ReplyDeleteYou can move beyond the "I like it or I don't" discourse by seeing that there are many different aspects in a single song to like or dislike. You may like the lyrics but hate the tune while another person might like the beat but hate the lyrics. There is a lot of room for discussion about why someone might like a song's lyrics and someone else dislikes it. We are able to argue logically because of the different ways people can feel about music.
ReplyDeleteTo move beyond this, we must discuss the affects that the physical aspects of the music have. Although music can have a different affect on everyone, we can think about the rhetoric triangle to argue about musical style or quality; if we understand the musicians' intentions, we might be able to move past just saying "I like it or I don't," and instead we can focus on wether or not the artist achieved their purpose, and if we understood their intentions.
ReplyDeleteI think in order to move past simply liking or disliking music, you have to actually listen to the music. Not just sit while a song is playing, but really take in the words and how they fit with the notes. Or even researching an artist's background can help you move into a deeper understanding of a song. If a song reflects on a difficult time in someone's life, then you might like a song better because you actually understand what the song is about. It might also be helpful to have some background in music. For example, a composer might be able to argue more about the notes than just a casual listener of music.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how you begin to discuss music, the very first thought that will occur to you is whether you enjoy it or not. Even attempting to have an open mind will lead to first judging the quality of music by your personal tastes and preferences. However, moving past this initial judgement is what is important when discussing music. We would in turn need to instead look into the motives of the artist and form our own interpretations of the lyrics to first discuss the music. When analyzing music, we tend to emphasize the importance of the lyrics, because that is what we can mostly relate to, words instead of sounds. So, reading a page of lyrics will help push us past our opinion of whether we enjoy the style or not, and allows us to go in depth and analyze the quality of the music at hand.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that Wingell says is that when writing about music, you shouldn't be too descriptive in using metaphors and such because that clouds the actual message of what you are trying to say about the piece. To get beyond the "I do or don't like it" you need to be able to cut to the chase and say how you feel about the piece. He also says that even when there is text with music it is still difficult to determine what that text is actually saying. This opens up opportunity for different interpretations of songs. As for the actual music behind the text it can speak differently to different people; it is a lot about how it makes you feel and what emotions it brings up which can often be hard to articulate to others.
ReplyDeleteI feel like most people simply listen to music for its aesthetic qualities and don't think about what the artist is truly trying to convey. Even though I love the song "Who Runs the World" by Beyonce and it is a catchy tune, I don't think it was the most moving piece of lyricism I have ever heard. The style and quality of the music should be determined more in the meaning of the lyrics and how the instrumentation helps reflect what the artist is trying to say. The relationship to the sound and to the words should define its style and quality.
ReplyDeleteI beleve that it is really hard to move beyond the "I like it or I dont" discourse. I am so used to my personal tatse in music, therefore, I find difficulty in learning to respect other styles and taste in music. I believe that the only way to move past this discourse is to just listen to the other styles and types of music and then compare those styles to my favorite styles. If I find similarities between them then I would be able to argue more logically about issues of mysical style or quality.
ReplyDeleteWhen having a discussion about music, it does not matter as much as to whether or not you yourself enjoy listening to it, but if you can argue your points logically. There are many components of music that can be discussed besides whether or not it is your taste. For example, you can discuss the instruments, style, vocals, and the feelings it evokes. Music can be compared in this way to books. In English class you usually have to read books that you do not personally enjoy. However, you still have to be able to discuss and explore the meanings in these books.
ReplyDeleteI think that in order to move beyond only judging music by liking it or not liking it we have to make the discussion personal. When the discussion becomes personal and you can link the music to personal experiences and into something that other people can relate to so they can see that music can be judged by more than whether you like it or not. When you make the music connect to a certain situation that I think people will open up their minds and start discussing the quality and style of the music. When someone opens their mind to the idea that discussing music can be very in-depth and meaningful then I believe that more people will follow their lead and realize that the discussion of music is more than just whether you enjoyed it or not.
ReplyDeleteI think the way we move past this idea of solely liking or writing off a musical work or concept is by encouraging listeners to be open and proud of their thoughts and ideas towards music that they either like or completely disapprove of. Everyone has a different take on everything and the more people express their opinions, the more comfortable the music community will be.
ReplyDeleteTo move beyond the realm of "liking or not liking" music, maybe people have to try to listen to the music without judgement or thought. Instead of thinking about the music and what it means to them, if a person just HEARS the music and listens with an empty mind, and then discusses it, they may be more open to different opinions and perceptions of the music. This is difficult because the mind is trained to make snap judgements of everything it perceives, but an open mind is most likely key to discussing musical style and quality.
ReplyDeleteWe can move beyond the "I like it or I don't" stage by analyzing the meaning behind the lyrics, rhythm, and the overall sound of a piece. People can connect to songs on such a personal level whether that be because the lyrics hit home and remind them of a time in their life or apply to a situation they are going through now. However, people can connect more to the lyrics. Sometimes, it is the rhythm of the song that resonates with the audience and turns their day from bad to better. The quality of song also has great importance to moving past the "like and don't like" because a high quality song has the power to move people to tears where they feel like they are emotionally connected to each chord.
ReplyDeleteWe move beyond "I like it" or "I don't like it" by moving from opinions into the abstract. First, one can talk about the logistics of the music, such as the actual aspects of a song, album, or artist. But the real value from group discussion comes from talking about the music's impact-- either on the world or on the listener personally. This allows people to discuss many aspects of the music, and why it might have different effects in different circumstances. People can analyze the way the musical style, rhythm, or mood, for example, play a part in the world. These discussions produce many different viewpoints and analogies and allow the participants to learn and grow.
ReplyDeleteI think the best way to move beyond the "I like it or don't" discourse is to attempt an objective analysis and to try to respect other people's opinions of music. You can analyze music objectively or as a whole by analyzing structure, message, and relation to the audience. Whether you prefer one style or genre over the other, music is a universal topic and can unite people. This is the aspect to focus on when fostering musical discussion and a way to bridge the gap between opinions. If you realize that everyone is going to have a different interpretation and try to understand each one, you may even change your own interpretation.
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